Marilyn
22 March 2010, 02:08PM

the refugees are not a drain, it is the stupid policy of locking some of them up that is the drain.

for heavens sake students and migrants are perfectly safe in their own countries and can stay there as far as I am concerned.

The tiny number of refugees who come here don’t take any space or services so do get a grip on reality mate.

Andrew J S
22 March 2010, 02:06PM

Foreign students and tourists in particular are a net positive gain for our economy - they do not drain public resources like refugees do, cutting back on them would actually reduce the capacity to pay for the net economic drain that refugees impose on the economy. Do at least try to understand economics Marilyn, everything in life is not free, it comes at a cost. Would you like to offer Refugees the same benefits that Foreign Students and Tourists get - ie no medicare, no free housing etc? If so, let them all come as it would no longer be unaffordable. I understand the plight of the refugee and want to help them all - its just not affordable to do so - why don’t you tell us Maralyn what you would do and how you would pay for it - what services would you cut to pay for it?

Marilyn
18 March 2010, 04:59PM

You are whining though about a tiny number of people.

Stop the massive migration, the 400,000 foreign students who have housing needs, stop the 8 million tourists who have to stay somewhere but don’t stop the piddling number of refugees who face death or torture.

Do get a life Andrew.

Andrew J S
18 March 2010, 04:03PM

You are too funny Maralyn, you are right - because there is nowhere for them to stay here they should not be allowed in - was this the intention of your argument? Don’t make assumptions for what all refugees have gone through - you can’t possibly know, and how are the needs of a refugee any greater than a that of a homeless Australian who may well be escaping a life of domestic violence and abuse more horrendous than that of the refugee? There are limited finances and limited housing resources and the needs for those resources are already exceeding supply domestically. How will wholesale importation of more people in need do anything other than make existing problems worse? not a very grown up solution Maralyn. Where will the extra finances come from? should we tax business till it becomes unviable to do business in Australia? what is your grown up solution?

Marilyn
18 March 2010, 03:39PM

Andrew if we are going to allow refugees to stay here they have to live somewhere.

Do get a grip on reality mate.  They are not tourists or migrants who chose to leave a nice safe place and lob somewhere else.

They have fled torture, persecution, murders, wars and so on and your complete inablity to tell the difference shows you have not grown up.

Andrew Sporle
18 March 2010, 09:04AM

Well Maralyn, i am 1 day older now and all grown up now. And you managed to be both completely wrong and missed the point. Refugees are given free housing, and they are put up in free accomodation like tourist parks (refer Daily telegraph which i think you already have ) and taxpayers are footing the whole bill for this. All well and good if it is affordable for all but of course it isn’t. We have homeless in this country and workers with far less benefits than refugees - hardly a recipe for an equitable and harmonious society is it? As more refugees flood in - watch the levels of animosity rise in the rest of the population. If the situation is not addressed soon expect a public backlash that will make John Howards reign look very soft and too humane. The issue here is equity - if its left unaddressed or if you pretend it doesn’t exist, dire conseqences will follow. Human rights, which you push quite heavily, needs to be equitable otherwise it simply won’t work.

Marilyn
17 March 2010, 01:18PM

Grow up Andrew.  Refugees do not and nor have they ever got free housing and even if they did so what.

We are not talking about housing for 400,000 foreign students, or 300,000 or so permanent migrants, or 8 million tourists.

We only have these whines when we discuss the tiny number of homeless refugees who come our way and it is delusional.

Andrew J S
17 March 2010, 09:08AM

Oh Marilyn, I wish I could live in the bubble that you do. The point is resources are limited, we have to accept this and learn to make the best of what we have. It is utterly pointless saying everyone has a right to housing and help if there is insufficient resources to support it - do you think the government can simply print more money to buy services such as housing and help? has it dawned on you that there is a housing crisis in Australia at present and increasing the population through immigration is making this problem worse? I wish that we could have free housing and help for everyone in need.I wish we could all have free education and healthcare - wishing for all these things is one thing, paying for them is another.

Marilyn
16 March 2010, 04:36PM

Why would letting refugees starve to death on the street be a pre-condition to letting in more of them?

Andrew, you do go on.

Here is a tip - everyone has the right to asylum and with that right they have a right to housing and help.

Full stop

Andrew J S
16 March 2010, 04:07PM

Yes you are right, Borders are as you put it ‘silly human constructs’ . Unfortunately Humans are teritorial and it is a primary animal instinct to defend territory perceived as ones own. Human rights unfortunately are not universal, and in any case are very quickly sacrificed if a primary need - usually territory, but can just as easily be food water or shelter - is taken or is under threat.
Question - Would you support a policy of allowing in more refugees if it was conditional on not granting medicare/social security or public housing benefits?

Marilyn
16 March 2010, 03:37PM

No country has the right to defend their borders at the expense of human rights or to allow human rights violations.

These borders are not real, they are silly human constructs and nothing more whereas human rights are universal.

Andrew J S
16 March 2010, 03:06PM

Does Australia really think it has the right to defend other countries borders? I don’t think so - unless we are asked to provide help in this regard as one sovereign nation to another. All countries have a right to defend their borders - humans being so teritorial have always felt this need, it is probably the root cause for most wars in the first place…

Marilyn
16 March 2010, 02:47PM

I love the notion that Australian thinks they have the right to “protect the borders” of all our neighbours, which is short hand for paying our neighbours to lock up refugees for us.

Andrew J S
16 March 2010, 01:15PM

What is really outrageous is the suggestion that Australia is somehow responsible or accountable for the conditions of facilities in other sovereign countries. You can’t on one hand expect Australia to behave like some kind of imperial power and impose its will and conditions on its sovereign neighbors and on the other hand defend the rights and freedoms of those very sovereign neighbors whoes rights you are happy to stamp on if they don’t fit your ideals.

John
12 March 2010, 02:57PM

This is outrageous

margaret taylor
11 March 2010, 12:53PM

I thought that Australia’s poor treatment of asylum seekers was over with the end of the Howard Government.  How brutal of the “lucky country” to turn its back on the unluckiest of people - those vulnerable asylum seekers remaining trapped in Merak.

Australia - “where the bloody hell are you” when it comes to honouring your human rights obligations?  “Where the bloody hell are you” when it comes to basic humanity?
Margaret Taylor

Marilyn
10 March 2010, 01:46AM

Giving refugees a ride is nothing to do with people smuggling or trafficking in any criminal sense and the two protocols that govern both of them specifically exempt refugees and their right to seek asylum.

Our media is woeful though in reporting the truth, so much easier to report hysterical drivel.